Wintersmith et al

[flyingskull]

My very good and patient friend baeraad in response to one of my many proddings wrote in his lj:

Oh man yes! :D I read it a few days ago. And from the moment I opened it until I got to the last page, I spent all my time doing one of two things; reading or walking briskly around my apartment trying to resist the urge to whoop and holler in a way offensive to my neighbours. :D

Oh, the characters! Oh, the plot! Oh, the grandeur seamlessly fitting together with the matter-of-fact realism! Oh, my complete inability to say anything on the subject without melting into a puddle of pure Fanboy! ^_^;;

I did remember to study the style, and I must admit it was interesting. There's a detail here, there's a detail there, and somehow it comes together into an entire world. This is definitely what I have to try for - no long descriptions, but a framework for the readers to fill out.

Oh, and I was very fond of the beginning. Not something to try in a stand-alone book, I think, but seeing as this is the third book in a series... we know pretty much what shape things will have, don't we? We know Tiffany is going to be exposed to the Discworld-witch version of zen philosophy, we know that there's going to be an antagonist who's more a force of nature than a person, and we know that there's going to be some kind of showdown where she's going to have to demonstrate what she's learned (the real Witch Trials aren't competitions, are they? They turn up out of nowhere, and the witch either knows her stuff or she doesn't, and if she doesn't, she's not the only one who's going to have to pay).

So here we get it right from the start - just how powerful Tiffany has become, and just how inadequate that is in the face of what she's dealing with. So all through the story, we know that this is where we're heading. We never have to ask ourselves if it's going to get worse before it gets better. We know that it will.

I also love the escalating scale of responsibility Tiffany has to take in each book. In Wee Free Men, the problem came from outside, and she was the only one who could deal with it. In Hat Full of Sky, it was her own desires made a mess of things, but they had to be triggered from the outside. In Wintersmith, it's her fault. Period. She didn't mean any harm, but she did something stupid, and now she's going to have to deal with the consequences before her world ends because of it.

First I don't think that beginning works only because it's part of a series, in fact I am quite sure it would work SMASHINGLY well in any novel. Think of it, imagine this is the first book by Pterry you've ever read. Wouldn't you want to read on to know what the fuck has happened and how and why and to whom and who the HELL is this girl? Me, I would and I'm sure I'm a pretty average reader when it comes to pant over a book and forget to eat at first reading. I come over all critiquy and things at the third or fourth reading, actually.

Then, I don't know you but Tiffany Aching is a heroine I love to dislike. I really do and I think that THIS is the measure of Pterry's real greatness as an author. Look, I'm not sure I can explain, but... well, you see, in a way the Tiffany trilogy is a kind of anti-Potter thingy. There you have your misunderstood but quite hefty hero ('kay, 's a heroine and am not spitting on that but please allow me), there you have your compeer nemesis who is nothing half as lethal as the real baddies (alright, not exactly baddies as such, this is Pterry, not some clichéd pen pusher) but who is snotty and things and you have other compeers who may not seem much, but in the end they are pretty good at things. See where I'm going?

Tiffany is... *takes a deep breath* ... complicated, which I love, and not particularly lovely, which is alright because she has THE quality that really makes her a hero: she takes the consequences of her actions. She's pretty cool, in fact she's way too cool in her own estimation, and here's where the Potter parallel comes in. And you know why I love Pterry so much - BTW I think Maya's getting there, slowly but if she keeps this last style of writing, she's definitely getting there - because he ain't afraid of presenting a not very likeable heroine and he never but never shirks on her bad - very really bad - qualities and he never sugarcoats things BUT anyone can see why she's the bloody heroine. Not because she's powerful, but because she takes responsibilities and fucking PAYS her dues. I don't know many writers who can do that, y'know? Keep the ethics and not fall into the 'loveable' hero pattern.

So what does one do when the hero/ine is not that likeable a person? :-D One gives a long hard look at the baduns and sees if there's anything that resonates there. And oooooooooh LOOOK! We have two!

I truly find Annagramma and Mrs Earwig lovely persons. YEP! I confess: if Granny weren't so... so... oh fuck so on THE EDGE all of the time I wouldn't love her so deeply or so much. The fact that Granny is never but never allowing herself Tiffany's kind of arrogance makes her own arrogance endearing. But my heart, in a way, would be with Mrs Earwig and her daring theory of combining male and female magic all the way and all the time.

Annagramma - Tiffany's Draco - LEARNS! Wow! A character who allows facts and experience to influence her way of thinking and acting! Wow! I mean. WOW. I mean she learns she is NOT redeemed. You see the utter awesomeness? And also Annagramma learns lots more than Tiffany, y'know? Because after all's said and done and after Tiffany's learned what it takes to re-define legends and anthropomorphic personifications, she STILL is going to join the dance AGAIN. Catch Annagramma doing something so stupid or being so absent-minded and caught up in the excitement of the moment to do something so stupid. See what I mean?

And I love Mr Wintersmith and his ice roses that melt in the warmth of a human hand and his ice palace of dreams. I love tragedies and all Tiffany's stories are tragedies, have you unoticed? Tragedies hidden in folk rhymes and ballads that are made clear and present. And any person who dares belittle the MacFleagles' triumph will know the extent of my wrath. Which, I hasten to say, is rather more Granny-like than anything else.

Well, this would have been too long a reply and also that thread was starting to get looooooong, so this is a mercy cut, or surgery operation.

Comments

[baeraad.livejournal.com]

First I don't think that beginning works only because it's part of a series, in fact I am quite sure it would work SMASHINGLY well in any novel.

You're probably right. Still, I got the impression that there was a nod to frequent readers in there. "I can reveal all sorts of things to you, because you're going to see them coming anyway - and this way, you're never going to make the mistake of thinking that the wintersmith's little crush is in harmless and cute." =]

What I really, and what's really rare, is that the beginning promised a lot, and then delivered. The first chapter gives you a feeling of a long and winding road that's led here - there's a sense of wearyness, of coming to the end of yourself. Well, that's an easy promise to make - in fact, it's typical of this kind of beginning. Books that begin that way commonly disappoint.

Pratchett is not common. And he does not disappoint. :D There really is a long string of ups and downs and wonders and horrors leading up to that first scene.

Then, I don't know you but Tiffany Aching is a heroine I love to dislike.

I'm not sure I see why. I love Tiffany. :D Okay, she's a brat at times, but she gets shown up for it every so often, so it's all good. =] Though I admit that I have a hard time being objective about main characters.

I made a friend of mine read the first two books, and her comment was "they were good, but the heroine was weird." So I assume there is something to it that my disabilities in the area are keeping me from seeing clearly... =]

well, you see, in a way the Tiffany trilogy is a kind of anti-Potter thingy.

Heh, yeah. :D The series so far comments pretty heavily on HP. I notice there was even a character named Mrs Umbridge in this one, though she didn't play that large a role. =]

I wonder if Pratchett is genuinely annoyed at Rowling? I suppose he'd have the right to be. He has spent his life getting quite famous and successful by writing clever and insightful books about the importance of thinking clearly and being prepared to do the work. And then Rowling comes along and gets even more famous and successful by writing stupid and derivative books about how everything will be all right if you just listen to your heart and believe in yourself. Not only that, she's gotten so famous and successful that people are now accusing him of stealing from her the ideas for books he published decades ago. If I were him, I'd be fuming. =]

On the other hand, I suspect Pratchett is quite a bit more mature than I am, and he's always had a habit of commenting on conventions. HP has become a convention all of its own, so maybe it just falls natural for him to comment on it in depth.

[baeraad.livejournal.com]

I mean she learns she is NOT redeemed. You see the utter awesomeness?

I see it very clearly, yes. :D I love that Anagramma's traits are constantly shown to go both ways. She's obnoxious and overbearing, but only because she really does have some leadership skills. She's intellectually condescending, but only because she really is pretty smart. And she bullshits her way through life, but the thing is, successfully bullshitting your way through a situation is a rare and useful talent. =]

And really, Anagramma's just a very normal witch who's a bit unsteady on her feet at first. All the witches are flaming primadonnas. They act like evil bitches from hell at times. And they are all very intelligent in some ways and very silly in others. "We all have our funny little ways. Except me, of course." Hee hee, I loved that one! :D

And also Annagramma learns lots more than Tiffany, y'know?

I love that Annagramma not only gets to save the day (with one of those fireball Tiffany thought were so stupid, no less!), but that she gets to be the sensible one and harry Tiffany on her way like a proper witch after that. And that comment about "I have no idea what that was, but if it was after me, I wouldn't stand around here babbling until it came back!" sounded a bit like a fledgling Weatherwax - while it's pretty strongly implied that Tiffany is the heir to the throne that Diamanda only thought she was, she may just have more competition than she thought. Annagramma is going in the right direction now, and if it's one thing she's good at, it's momentum. =]

And I love Mr Wintersmith and his ice roses that melt in the warmth of a human hand and his ice palace of dreams.

Oh yes. Me too. :)

It seems to me that the three books so far have worked on three different levels. TWFM was a fairytale, where the heroine had to go on a quest, visit exotic and magical locations, and rescue people from a tyrant. AHFOS was... a personal horror story, perhaps (we see you. Now we are you definitely gave me shivers, at least), but either way, a great deal grittier and more about the main character herself than about what she was facing.

Wintersmith goes beyond that. It's is pure myth. Winter itself has fallen in love with a mortal. How huge is that?

And yes, it's a tragedy, because there's no bad guy. The Wintersmith is in love, or he thinks he is - and he acts on that feeling according to his nature, and according to the only kind of reason he understands. It wouldn't be so bad if he was ending the world because he was in love and had been rejected and wanted revenge. That would make him the bad guy. But he's ending the world as an act of love, as a token of his affection. He's ending the world because to him, that's the greatest gift he can give to his beloved, and nothing but the greatest gift will do to express his feelings.

I'm sorry, I can't really find words for this. :) So let me just say again that I can't get over how immensive the scope of this story is, while at the same time being so firmly grounded in mundane reality (or the Disc equivalent thereof =]).

Are the other two books tragedies, though? The second one I can sort of understand - the Hiver is definitely a tragic figure, wanting to be someone and not knowing how. The first book, though? The Queen is sort of pathetic, I guess, but she doesn't really seem to be aware of it, which makes it hard to feel sorry for her. =]

[flyingskull.livejournal.com]

I can certainly understand Mrs Earwig. She's focusing on the interesting areas of witchcraft, with less of the, ah, messy stuff. =] I'd do the same, really.

I'm just not sure why she's doing it in Lancre, of all places. She'd be a smash hit in Ankh-Morpork, wouldn't she? I bet there's tons of people there who'd want to try crystal therapy, on the principle that at least it has a better chance of improving your health, or more to the point not further deteriorating your health, than visiting a Morporkian physician. =]

But she isn't interested in being a witch in a wizard city, she's interested in being a sort of female wizard in witch country, which is exactly how a female thinks. She has NO wish to be a man, she's a bit snobby (see previous comment on name pronunciation), a bit squeamish, lots ambitious, quite intelligent - though I suspect Annagramma is more intelligent than her as she doesn't let her vanity get in the way of making things work - and utterly female. She wants to be the leader-they-don't-have of the witches, not to have grubby townies compare her to UU's finest.

She's also not a specialist in any sense of the word, I suspect she is made to look stupid because she's a bit scared of living on the edge and also - and I say this as a female - it's quite stupid for a woman to be squeamish when she bleeds once a month and gives birth to babies. As for the crystal therapy... well, that was Magrat, wasn't it? I don't think Mrs Earwig is more a crack at New Age Wiccans than Magrat was. Like Magrat she could learn that everything works if you are a witch, but there are some occasions in which a hefty rising of the sap or shooting of a fireball - which are, let's say, REAL magic - is needed. Witches can be hypocrites, liars, promadonnas, drunkards, brutal... whatever, BUT they can't be genteel, and that's what Mrs Earwig is. Okay, I realise that 'genteel' may be a tad too Brit for you: think Victorian ladies, they were genteel. Magrat is, after all, never genteel, not even when a queen.

Genteel is the contrary of witchiness, and that's possibly what Pterry has again New Age Wicca idiocy. The one-with-nature, silver-sygil, we-never-ran-through-the-woods-up-to-our-armpits-in-blood kind of witch never existed. Bit of a contradiction in terms, really. Well, I think Pterry finds the whole New Age thing contrived, American and quite stupid, but I may be wrong, as he only seems to attack the Wicca thing.